{"id":397826,"date":"2023-10-27T12:43:55","date_gmt":"2023-10-27T11:43:55","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blog.jetbrains.com\/?post_type=pycharm&p=397826"},"modified":"2023-10-30T10:24:38","modified_gmt":"2023-10-30T09:24:38","slug":"an-interview-with-brian-okken-the-pytest-storyteller","status":"publish","type":"pycharm","link":"https:\/\/blog.jetbrains.com\/pycharm\/2023\/10\/an-interview-with-brian-okken-the-pytest-storyteller\/","title":{"rendered":"An Interview with Brian Okken, the pytest Storyteller"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

Today we\u2019re delighted to be chatting with Brian Okken again. If you missed the last time, you can check out our webinar on Productive Testing with PyCharm<\/a> at your convenience. Brian wears many hats including being a host for @PythonBytes<\/a>, @PythonPeople<\/a> and @PythonTest<\/a> podcasts. Brian is also the author of Python Testing with pytest<\/a> and has recently launched his new pytest course<\/a>. Mostly, he spends his free time telling people they should write good, clean automated tests, specifically using pytest.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Tell us a little more about yourself, Brian.<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019m a software engineer and engineering manager. I work with both Python and C++, and develop embedded software for test and measurement equipment, mostly with RF measurements surrounding WiFi and cellular communications.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I live in Portland, Oregon. I\u2019m a father of daughters. I like to garden, but my wife\u2019s the real plant expert. My wife and I are also antique dealers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You\u2019re Python\u2019s testing storyteller. When did you first get involved in the pytest community?<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

My first pytest blog article<\/a> was in January of 2013. I had written a custom x-unit style function-based test framework for work. As the functionality of the custom framework grew, I started researching off-the-shelf alternatives. And at the time, the blog posts and such about unittest and pytest was all kinda old, and some of them were wrong. So I started the blog (then pythontesting.net<\/a>) to do an apples-to-apples comparison of unittest, pytest, and at the time, also nose and doctest.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I ended up falling in love with pytest. I also got great feedback from pytest core devs on the blog posts. I originally turned a bunch of blog posts into an ebook. I then decided to write Python Testing with pytest<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

During both editions of the book, pytest core devs helped out a ton as technical reviewers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n

You also run a podcast called Test & Code. How long have you been doing that, and how\u2019s it going?<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

Well, that\u2019s been changed to \u201cPython Test\u201d, but it currently still resides at testandcode.com<\/a>. I started that in 2015, originally \u201cThe Python Testing Podcast\u201d. I guess the new name is going back-to-roots, a bit. The podcast is great, and I consistently get feedback from people telling me they like the refreshing perspective I have on testing. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

I really wanted to reach people that were both writing software and writing tests, as the quality of material around writing great tests as a developer is not great. There\u2019s just not that much. There\u2019s \u201chow to do toy problems with TDD\u201d, and there\u2019s \u201chow to be a QA engineer\u201d. But there\u2019s not a lot of material around pragmatically using automated tests to make writing software easier. I was trying to fill a bit of that hole.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But then it became just fun to talk to people and learn about tools and techniques. I\u2019ve been fascinated by the packaging story around Python, so there are quite a few episodes around pyproject.toml and flit and such. I should probably talk to the Hatch people sometime.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I started podcasting and public speaking around the same time, and those activities really made it feel like I was giving back to the community and becoming more involved in it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Your video course is rolling out now. Can you tell us a little bit more about that course?<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

During re-writing the pytest book, I kept asking myself \u201cWould I teach someone this if they were sitting right next to me?\u201d and \u201cWould I teach this now? or wait till later?\u201d. So I had that thought process of imagining I were sitting with someone, teaching them about testing and pytest.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The original idea for the course is to go one step further, to go through all of the topics in the same order as the book and teach as I would if we were sitting together with a computer. It\u2019s growing to something more though. I\u2019m able to include extras. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Here are a few examples:<\/p>\n\n\n\n