Moving on to AppCode 2018.1

Two weeks ago we released AppCode 2017.3 and now it’s time to share our plans for the next release:

Please note this is a preliminary plan, so not all features listed below may be included in AppCode 2018.1.

We are planning to open 2018.1 EAP at the end of January. If you have any suggestions or questions, feel free to share them in the comments below or in our tracker.

Your AppCode team
JetBrains
The Drive to Develop

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10 Responses to Moving on to AppCode 2018.1

  1. greatdanehugs says:

    Completely unacceptable. Are you dogfooding your products? I thought Jetbrains does a good job of antipating dev needs. But not with @appcode How can we still not have the ability to run Extensions?
    https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/OC-10697
    https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/OC-11410

    Extensions is pure code, non visual at all. But @appcode completely misses it’s own sweet spot, and forces devs to debug / run pure code based work in XCode. Who is your product manager? Ridiculous

    • Stanislav Dombrovsky says:

      Disclaimer: we do understand, how important this task is. We do not forget about it.

      The problem is that it’s not about the code, it’s mostly about the huge part of the debugger functionality. It’s hard to estimate it, so we do not mention it here right now. There were different reasons preventing us from starting it. As soon as we have some time for this task, we will implement it.

      Here we are trying to share all the tasks that should be finished at the release time, but as usual with big products, it’s hard to be completely sure that all of them actually will be finished. So, it’s more a direction, some tasks can be done on the way.

      Who is your product manager?

      Our team, our users, and the complexity of each and every task in our tracker :) Having a single manager person responsible for product decisions is not the way we work at JetBrains.

  2. greatdanehugs says:

    What good is the tool and dev tools if they are not helping what JetBrains is trying to achieve? Improving developer productivity.

    >Our team, our users, and the complexity of each and every task in our tracker :) Having a >single manager person responsible for product decisions is not the way we work in >JetBrains.

    Then how did you come up with the roadmap? Where is the transparency? Just the tracker? I clicked through a number of those items, and some have very little votes.

    What is the point of a developer tool like an IDE, if it can’t support > 50% of a platform?

    With no extension support, Today extensions, Apple Watch, TV OS etc. are all unusable. Only the most trivial apps wouldn’t add these things to project. Any modern complex app would require at least one of these elements.

    I can appreciate that you might not know an ETA of how long it will take. But continuing to NOT prioritise and provide support for such a large part of the platform / eco system seems like this tool is dead or is in death spiral.

    • Stanislav Dombrovsky says:

      Then how did you come up with the roadmap? Where is the transparency? Just the tracker? I clicked through a number of those items, and some have very little votes.

      The tracker is the most visible part. And the best place to vote and share problems. Not sure, what do you mean by “transparency”, but also we take into account social networks, forums, StackOverflow, support requests, team impression, team communications with our users, conferences, meetups, other events and a lot more. Nearly everything.

      What is the point of a developer tool like an IDE, if it can’t support > 50% of a platform?

      It could be a show-stopper for those who have extensions in their projects, you are right. If it’s a show-stopper for them, then there is no point for them to use AppCode until the support for running/debugging extensions is implemented. Also, there are projects without extensions and there quite a lot of them. Unfortunately, we do not have any relevant statistic sources to say that it’s more or less than 50% of projects developed for Apple platforms. If you have any, please share them with us.

      I can appreciate that you might not know an ETA of how long it will take.

      Some tasks in big products are hard, or, sometimes, impossible to estimate. As I’ve said, this one is hard to estimate. That’s why we do not include it in the roadmap for the current release.

  3. greatdanehugs says:

    >Unfortunately, we do not have any relevant statistic sources to say that it’s more or less than >50% of projects developed for Apple platforms. If you have any, please share them with us.

    I have a very relevant statistic. I checked my phone, my wife’s phone, and those of a few co-workers.

    Of all the apps on their phone, the today widget was available in > 75% of all of the most important apps on their phone (importance determined by the individual person).

    It’s very simple to see. Swipe left on your home screen, and see what Widgets are available.

    If you would like me to start listing these apps by name, I’m happy too. The results are conclusive as far as I’m concerned over whether the Extension / Widget functionality is included in apps that are important to normal everyday users.

    >Some tasks in big products are hard, or, sometimes, impossible to estimate. As I’ve said, this >one is hard to estimate. That’s why we do not include it in the roadmap for the current >release.

    I don’t agree with the planning. Just because a feature is big doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be on a roadmap for your customers. You shared your roadmap as a way of involving your customers and communicating your priority list that was the intention of your blog post. And I’m communicating back to you that I think your priority list is missing something fundamental to the Apple ecosystem now, that I can statistically see how many important apps have this functionality, and that it’s poor project management to leave something important off a road map which is used to communicate with your customers.

    I manage demanding customers and large projects as well. If I told my customers that I didn’t even acknowledge an important project in my project plan for next year (which is what you did by leaving it off the roadmap), and that it was materially important to their ecosystem and had been missing for years — I would rightfully expect them to complain or leave.

    Of all the JetBrains products, AppCode is by far the most behind + lagging behind the industry and of the poorest quality. I’ve been a customer since IntelliJ v3 including corporate purchases for large dev teams. And I’m very unhappy with this roadmap.

    • Stanislav Dombrovsky says:

      I have a very relevant statistic. I checked my phone, my wife’s phone, and those of a few co-workers.

      Unfortunately, we cannot use such statistics when communicating with thousands of customers developing with Swift/Objective-C and C++. However, as I’ve said before, we do not think and we haven’t ever say that this task is not important.

      Just because a feature is big doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be on a roadmap for your customers.

      Unfortunately, for us, it means that we cannot promise something we won’t finish at release time in the roadmap. Everything that we consider for “some time in the future” lives in the public tracker and there is no single issue closed just because we “won’t think we ever do it” or “won’t think we have time for it”. Each suggestion we can implement will remain here and it doesn’t matter how complex is it.

      You shared your roadmap as a way of involving your customers and communicating your priority list that was the intention of your blog post. And I’m communicating back to you that I think your priority list is missing something fundamental to the Apple ecosystem

      You are right, but it doesn’t mean that we should lie to you and promise something we won’t be able to finish. It means that we can evaluate and answer if we will be able to include some suggestion into the roadmap or not. I think that my explanation was not clear to you and that’s why I’ll try to explain the situation in details again.

      We have a dedicated part of the team working specifically on the debugger functionality. This part is quite complex since there is no documentation for it at all. Also, the complexity of tasks does not allow us to involve other team members or distribute the tasks in another way – it’s less efficient and it won’t help us to implement this part faster. We have made several attempts to implement these tasks (as we promised in our tracker in the corresponding issue), but unfortunately, all these attempts failed. And it’s still not clear how to implement this part properly. Next, we have tasks mentioned in the Run/Debug section. One of them was requested quite a long time ago (Location Simulation) and there is a big part of our audience that is really not happy without it. Second is wireless debugging that is the part of the Xcode 9 support – and we also worked on the Xcode 9 support during a long time. And this part was also promised. These tasks were started and we have a clear understanding how to finish it at release time. We can mention it here because compared to the part, that is still completely not clear, it’s better to give something valuable to the community, finish tasks we promised and switch to extensions after it.

      If I told my customers that I didn’t even acknowledge an important project in my project plan for next year

      We have about 3 months for 2018.1 taking minor 2017.3.x updates into account. So it’s not the plan for the year. It’s the direction for the next release – one of the three major updates during the year. And it doesn’t mean that this task won’t appear in the roadmap for 2018.2, for example.

  4. John says:

    I have to agree with greatdanehugs. AppCode has been lagging for years now.
    It has been more than 3 years since swift was first released and developing on AppCode feels more like a pain than a productive IDE. I had high hopes and putchased a 3 years license when your yearly subscription came out… wish I hadn’t. It never felt productive to use AppCode with swift.

    • Stanislav Dombrovsky says:

      It has been more than 3 years since swift was first released

      Yes, you’re right, it’s already 3 years since the first Swift public release. Also, we have only 2 years of Swift being open-source (only the code part, nothing related to running/debugging or any other IDE functionality) and 7 years from the moment when Chris Lattner started its development. Not mentioning that we already had 3 major language releases during this time breaking a lot when transitioning from 2.x to 3.x.

      It never felt productive to use AppCode with swift.

      It would be great to hear concrete problems you have and/or features you need.

    • Mat says:

      Have to disagree! AppCode is years ahead of XCode, even with the problems. Good job team! Keep it up!

      Also, some of these comments are rude.

  5. Zmicier says:

    Clearly, the comments of greatdanehugs are out of line, but it’s hard to disagree that AppCode experience could have been better in some aspects, it’s currently not up to par with your other IDEs. However, it’s also apparent that the work JetBrains does here is very difficult and depends significantly on what Apple exposes and allows to do.

    I started working as an iOS developer less than three years ago, first with ObjC, then with Swift (I was doing Java/Python/C++ using other JetBrains IDEs before switching to mobile development). From day one I use AppCode and it’s very clear to me that this IDE moves in a right direction and becomes better with every release. AppCode is undoubtedly superior to Xcode for my daily development activities, so keep up with the good work! And for all the issues that we face there’s a tracker, so maybe we as a community should do a better job documenting our issues there and voting for them to affect the priorities of AppCode development team.

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